tv [untitled] November 11, 2011 6:31am-7:01am EST
just a few days ago now. interplanetary mission was aimed at getting a soil sample from the moon and. obtain a better knowledge of the universe. those are the headlines you're not see up next though peter and his guests explore china's position as an emerging superpower and with the political and economic woes in the west cross-talk is now. wealthy british style. because. of the. markets weiner scandal. find out what's really happening to the global economy in the kinds of reports on our t.v. . continue to. follow
him and welcome the cross-talk time peter about china's maneuvering our chinese fortunes faring during the global financial crisis and the euro zone fiasco political uncertainty in the u.s. and the arab spring is china and that gaynor is the world undergoes massive economic and geopolitical shifts and as the world changes will china take on a greater leadership role. and you can. still. get cross-talk china's growing influence i'm joined by greg audrey in irvine he's an entrepreneur and co-author of death by china in miami we have already shankar he has to ford motor company chair in global business management at ohio state university and in beijing we cross to doris nesbitt she's the director of the nesbitt china institute all right folks you have difference a points of view on this and i want you to show my viewers ok but first marcia
people say that china is set to save the world well i don't know about that but there is little doubt that over the last decade asia and china specifically has been steadily moving to the fore of the global economy and in the wake of the two thousand and eight credit crunch which shattered the western financial crisis and triggered europe's own sovereign debt crisis experts say china's role in power in global affairs is more palpable than ever growing economic might is reflected in the. some talk over beijing's capacity to contribute to the hero's owns bailout fund the decision has not been finalized by european leaders and they i.m.f. have all welcomed the prospect of an investment which could range between fifty and one hundred billion dollars. i believe resolution for european debt is very important for us to billet you know finance committee. if china does inject cash into the euro zone it would mark an unprecedented shift in global power dynamics and make china a financial power on par with the u.s. but this wouldn't be the first time that the two countries for a while now the u.s.
has laid claims that china is under valuing its currency. continue to try to game the system to their advantage and our just sit damage so i think it's appropriate and fitting and timely for us to be standing up and saying you know this is this is not acceptable ultimately however saving the eurozone and the u.s. is in china's own economic interests meanwhile economists are already warning of contagion threat if the crisis unravels and some have pointed to the country's slow growth as a sign of a spillover effect concerns that beijing has dismissed. who owns it is trying to say that the national economy is generally on the right track and is benefiting from the macro control policies on the domestic front china's been further tightening the screws on internet freedom whether it's a sign of its internal vulnerability in the world by popular uprisings is unclear
but a three day media conference last week and it with a whole slew of measures in that stopping what the chinese call the spread of harmful information but irrespective it seems like china is going to go its way well let's talk about which way it's going to go aaron oden in miami if i go to you first year i mean what's most topical right now is whether the chinese will bail out the europeans bail out to europe eurozone or if they do what would they get out of it well first of all i think that you know they're either china has been. you know unfolding fairly fairly quickly. in my book the chinese century you know about six or seven years ago i you know i predicted that china will become world largest economy in twenty twenty five and we are mid-way through that through that process so this is not entirely unpredictable i mean you know we have both the united states and europe that are really modern mountain of that there are only two countries out there that have the resources to help them out one is japan which is also being somewhat reluctant global player with
a lot of the west to key issues to solve and then of course china you know you have mountain of trillions of reserves were. sinking deeper into the debt hole this was i think you know quite predictable ok great if i can go to you in irvine and the chinese have been very hesitant because they see that the europeans just can't get their house in order they've created such a utter mess of their economies with this debt crisis here why would the chinese want to get in there and and it will see the euro fail half year from now. you know first of all we've got to be clear when the chinese loan money to america or to europe it's not because they like them it's merely to gain political advantage you know for your economic exploitation like every other country and there's a moral here that even if it is any different than other countries do i mean every country goes after self interest right and geopolitical interest as well. no where
near is cutting them strategic as china does and we've got to be clear that finding our moral hazard in keeping us behaving badly either in europe or the united states is not in china's long term best interest there it's always want to see the west continue to harm itself doris you want to jump in there go right ahead. yes i was just going to say who sets the measure i mean who decides what's good and bad behavior you know i think we're at a point where the west has to think of all who decides what's good and bad are we really in the post given all the problems we have to talk top down to china and say what we decide to school what and what we think is good and what you would do is i think that the approach works much more would be what can we do it together to solve the problems ok greg you want to reply to that do you think that he decides
to measure very good question yeah well you know the. moral equivalency arguments really interesting until you come to face somebody who is truly evil we went through this whole same argument in the 1930's don't criticize the germans a lot of american companies went over there and set up business and said it's not our position you're rich when you call you're creating that board you're equating china of today to nazi germany of the one nine hundred thirty s. . absolutely although i think you know china somewhere worse as far as volume of scale in the level of censorship that's happening internally there but clearly the repression they put on there was right on as the rest of the world put together are you saying i object absolute objective moral values let's get it in miami go ahead . then i've even the object i mean. you know equate the two together you know and i said germany is on a completely different level i mean you know a country that has been probably the worst atrocities that we have witnessed in the
in human civilization so with all respect i mean i would not put china out there which i discovered it's the same here and i think you can result in any other totalitarian regime in history doris you want to reply to that here are you writing a book about it and you are scared yes and half so no to me. you know you open your book i miss talking we were squatting with her mach two can a man square that was in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine i don't know when you have been to china for the last time and i don't know what how many chinese weeks ago you have been talking you know we have we you got a place expert in our studies in mainland china and not and not call well. you know we are in china right now and we have been talking last week in with people of chengdu where they really try and work on i have been here on the integration to get people into an economic growth to rural population. they
young people are going with each other via internet it's not that there is no communication. internet certainly can be called a second party in china and it's certainly certain cities are regulated gets without both but china is in the process of stabbing each all. off running the country ok great it's an interesting point i mean china china is a very good if i can interject here if i could interject here i mean in the west china is criticized because it is not in line with the washington consensus if i can use that term here i mean china is a rising power the west is steadily steadily declining ok i mean so it really is the west has to adjust itself to a rising china and india with its own relative decline would you agree with that the same argument was made about the declining british empire at the beginning of the twentieth century and how the new way it was this. and the fascist states in
europe. so countries that are willing to exploit their people to any level are always able to achieve quick turnaround we saw them in the lead we saw that in germany we saw that at the beginning of the soviet union it's not sustainable but that's how they do i really i mean i've seen the people standing behind the rear of an ox with a wooden plow while the party members in shanghai in the business people in shanghai in moscow party like there's no tomorrow i've seen little children who are going to die because of lack of a five thousand dollars surgery because their health care system is an absolute joke did you want to jump in there go hand in miami yeah yeah yeah yeah i mean i mean first first of all i mean again and i want to say that in in a very very clear clear fashion yeah these no question did you know the chinese is a bed regime as far as as morality is concerned to put it at the same as a regime that is all going to mess murders of people you know because of their you
know a religion or otherwise you know inclination i when you're called i'll go on tell your own having said that having said that you called even though. he's not only let me finish been in jail or disappeared and you go ahead and finish up in miami go ahead yeah i don't think you can equate it with a close situation cap i'm very sorry i think you're entirely wrong but let me finish my point having said that they use no question that china is going to extract a heavy price for any but the. bail out my own view is that they're going to do it in a more this way there would be a lot of strings attached of course i do not buy the voices coming out of the e.u. in they state they would not be any strings attached that would be a lot of strings attached but again it is in the the in china's interest their main markets the euro and the u.s.
remain able to buy you know a chinese product i don't think it is. question about that ok greg i want to ask you a question i mean what china has benefited so much from the current economic order in the world right now i mean they're going to still continue to work as a partner is doris tried to point out you want to demonize them into an enemy but it's in their own interest to keep the order going the way it is. exactly the way that it's in him interested drug dealer housing his customers being able to continue to buy products that are doing them economic harm sustaining europe's bad behavior sustaining america's grab behaviors that is knocking on this planet we're going to we're short break and we've got a lot more to tell in the last day and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on china stay with r.t. . if you want to be.
in canada and the u.s. so that it is legal for you to give a bubble bath on your baby that contains a known carcinogen something that causes cancer most of the shines out of most independent they are sponsored by the industry and most of the time they don't claim it's a conflict of interest today an average cancer drug prescription costs nearly one thousand six hundred dollars a month oh my god i'm a nobody with cancer in my five therefore i protect focus because ninety to ninety five percent of the cancers hurt people with family history of cancer the pharmaceutical industry spends about fourteen percent of their budget on research and development and about thirty one percent for marketing and administration. in fact there are more pharmaceutical industry lobbyists in washington d.c. than members of congress. to.
close a team has been to the region where technological breakthroughs say humanoids. she goes to the scene. a little unusual ways to protect a neutral. place where farming pioneers place local cuisine to the highest pitch players and where future developments depend on the way. russia's black sea coast should close up on our. welcome back to crossfire computer all about the true mind you were discussing
china's increasing power. play. ok doris i know you want to jump in right here out and you want to react to what doug gregg said right before the break so go right ahead. yeah i think we have one common ground and that is that china has pointed out millions hundreds of millions of people out of poverty to a relatively modest wealth. you know the giffen issue of human rights includes in china that people have something to eat that people have a hope that people have a future and in judging china which is a very emotional attachment as we can see when we are here when we listen to what we have to say and you have to consider we have china came from where it started and if you look around china we're not only in cities like beijing or shanghai we
are on the countryside and if you see the children of parents who can not read i'm not having the ability and the the offer to visit the school or to have distant learning so that they are all to look for life has increased and improved dramatically you know you cannot always see look at china and say ok you cannot always draw the government clearly you cannot almost all the government but life does not only content in overthrowing governments life it is that you can fulfill your dreams that you can create your child that you can well create a family all of this is very much in the needs of the chinese people and when you have more and more of it they go ahead yeah yeah i get that but i don't want to hear the story that china has communist government has raised two hundred million people out of poverty they didn't raise anybody out of poverty hard working
intelligent chinese people raise their selves out of poverty with the boot lifted just a little bit and cheering for the chinese government in this way is like sharing the last horse in the kentucky derby japan korea taiwan singapore thailand all these other asian nation. pulled themselves up way before china the only thing the chinese government did was hold its people back longer so that they could be the very last people to achieve that sort of lifestyle it's a tragedy it isn't tell you what it is going to find are you happy because i'm going to miami here i mean i think that most reason people would say the chinese have done a pretty good job with the economic policy at least they're not in mired in debt like their competitors in the european union the united states i mean they've certainly done some some very positive things now you could say also with their foreign economic policy they're just only interested in self-interest they don't have all the baggage that the west has about humanitarian interventions and all of these other things mean the chinese should go on their own way i mean there's
something to be said about that right right i mean. i mean you have your chance is going to miami. mugabe's a bed the day after i hope you will be brought to the hague that has nothing to do with it i mean we talk about china china you know the whole issue is all risen more complex that the excuse me the picture is always more complex than the one sided argument that they hear here all in on both sides yes does the chinese leadership have considerable achievement i don't think there's any question about it when you're talking about you know leader of sea and the like is there a heavy very heavy price being paid by the individual because of the policies of you know more than his asian and economic growth no question about it i mean i can give you a very specific example of myself a trade off you know childhood cancer each child and things that are not being
taken care of and so forth there is no question about that as well the reality is is always much more complex than it seems. you want to see a democracy in china eventually. of course yes. can it have been it was will it happen that once i am not so sure i want to remind everyone did we the exception of taiwan there was really no precedent off. a democratic chinese society ok it may take such a time as they want all of that i heard it eventually it was ok great i mean it was me why should we assume if i go back to greg here in irvine and why should we assume china were to go down the world the path of democratization as we all would understand it why would it have to be a western liberal model can't they have a model that is more representative of their society and values go ahead. i didn't
say that i just say we need a model that doesn't involve killing a lot of people locking them up in jails because of their religious beliefs and then intentionally exploiting the weaknesses of the western governments in order to bring them down faster my concern which i am as internal behavior in this conversation is mostly to say to you i have to if they treat their own people this way why would you expect them to treat you fairly and in economic or business contractual relationships and they don't they're systemic cheaters and liars ok doris i have a very strong. critique of china there how do you react to that i know we lost you for a second so. we respond to what you did here ok well you know i think that one can prove anything and everything if you look at a certain point if you choose certain points looking at the us the picture can be very grim why it can be very bright so there can be saying said about china which are not bright and there are things that are very good but consider one thing china
is only thirty years. into reform and opening up where was the us certain years after the constitution was written where was the us only more than a walking there's a go when the blacks were still oh come on that you know jay if john was here he could tell you first have first hand how the riots were against the facts how he was taking share in sit ins because the blacks couldn't sit go to a restaurant so you know the point is we are not i am not here to defend the government what i want to say what we observe and what we observe is that china is on the path and it has done a very good job it has its flaws there are lots of things where it has to improve including the environment corruption the freedom of speech concerning the government of course nobody would deny that but. you cannot only look at one side
and neglect everything that's possible if you do that with us all with you although you're going to have picture there as well greg you want to reply not because i'd like to talk about your point i would also like to talk about china and china taking more responsibility on the global stage because it is the second largest economy in the world and will surpass the united states soon but it's still not flexing its diplomatic and political responsibilities i would say commensurate with the size do you think about that. well let me just first of all say the key to being able to improve yourself over time is freedom of speech criticism and so yes the u.s. is committed some terrible sense at home and around the world but the thing that's important is that we had made it we publicly flogged ourselves for it and we try to prove the chinese government's incapable of doing that now regarding their position around the world they are very cautious and i think the key thing everybody needs to understand is that in china. politics lead to economics as opposed to in europe
in united states where the goal of politics is try to achieve a better economic state for the people in china the goal of economics is to keep the chinese communist party in power and that's why they allow improvement not because they care about those kids out in you know on province it's only because they want the boys in beijing to stay in power ok or do you think that it's really very scientific it's not really. shine is self interest it's the self interest of the communist party this is where we just heard. none of them charlie no but i think i'll. go head to a dave to a different question here first of all eat so happens that in the eighty's the interest off the communist regime to provide economic prosperity i don't think there is any question about it. it happens to be good for the country i mean to a great extent so the fact that these two objectives are consistent you know is something that we should do we should keep in mind of course the regime would like to stay in power of course it's a regime for which you cannot mix prosperity is even more important for any other
regime nevertheless it is something that it's creates a lot of good for the chinese people as well so that we need to keep in mind going back to your earlier question yes china is a reluctant player on a global scene and other reasons because it is a relatively new player on global scene and there are all that the we play a remains to be seen what we have heard so far with china ease against the so-called us ag of money what we have all deserve so far is that china is unfortunately willing to engage with a lot of bad regime that each should not engage but only in only it's still a fairly reluctant player and may i say that one reason why china is hesitant about providing more also. the european union is really put in charge back home when
he will are increasingly concerned that you know chinese resources will go down. sinking a hole and that money will never be seen again ok doris if i can go to you there is another historical precedent out there was an emerging power that the international community the international architecture didn't accept very well and that was germany at the end of the nineteenth and beginning twentieth centuries do you see that we've learned any lessons there because china is coming up very very fast and particularly as the economic global crisis is affecting the west the most i mean this is a time for china it's an opportunity for china but also there are they still can remain hesitant and really stepping up on the stage a lot more when the world really needs more leadership. while but does the world allow try not to take pocket as as part of the global community i mean just listen to what half it has been said during this show it has been
offended. and and at the same time people say well why don't they tell of a bigger share well china will take its share and it as it's growing and has its also maturing in its system its share on the global communique wrote it will grow but it's sort of flying against very heavy headwinds because everybody tells you how terrible you are and on the other hand come share addict overall response ability with you wish we don't want to give you because you're not trust the wealthy solvent you know you cannot on one hand say you are not worth having responsibly like and you are saying you very much do playing with lego in front of time we've run out of time here we'll find out later if china will save the world many thanks to my guest today in miami irvine and in beijing and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time members stop. to.
new austerity yet. the euro zone's third largest economy is falling to the ravages of the euro crisis. palestine is expected to push for a vote on it. even if it loses the opponents to justify the decision. by the united states. and western. oil rich libya seeking to skim the cream off the riches left following. welcome to the program.